Possible bug

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31 Aug, 2012 12:50 AM

I took some cards that I had in a stack set up with the Reversible Note template and moved them to a new stack that is set with the Question and Answer template. The reason I created the new stack and moved these cards into it is that I did not want these particular cards to be reversible. Now, I did notice that when ever you change the template on a stack or move cards to another stack, the cards involved, regardless of when the were next scheduled to be studied prior to the move, will now be scheduled to be studied with your next update. I think that was set up intentionally by you, but it might be useful if the cards kept they previous schedule and give the user some option as to whether or not they want to study these cards immediately. Sometimes moving cards may just be an organizational decision and not an intention to have to study these cards immediately.

But now to the bug. I study the cards on my IPod with your latest iPod program. Since the cards that I moved to the new stack with the Question and Answer template appeared the next time I chose to "Study All Due Notes", it brought to my attention that the irreversibility I has sought did not take effect. A card that was designated as the "Answer" was offered as the "Question." I went to the card info on the desktop to double check, and yes, they are set up correctly on the desktop program. The facet I intended to be the question is labeled "Prompt" and the box for "Facet can be used as a prompt or question" was checked. The other facet does not have that box checked, and is labeled "Response."

Maybe I didn't do something right, but it looks like a bug. The method I used to move the cards was to set the original "Reversible Note" stack to the view in the Notes Browser where you can see the full image of each card. Then I selected and highlighted the card I wanted to move, and dragged it to the name of the new "Question and Answer" stack I had created, depositing them there.

Guess I'll see if it corrects when I am done studying these due notes and do my next update.

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by drewmccormack on 01 Sep, 2012 07:12 AM

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    Moving notes to another stack restarts the scheduling. That's because each stack can have a different scheduler, and they are usually incompatible with each other.

    Note that moving a note to a new stack should not affect its template, and whether it is reversible. The stack template is only used for making new notes.

    To make reversible notes irreversible, best to select the notes, and use the Apply Template menu. You don't need to move them at all.

    Any changes you make may not update on the iPhone until the next sync.

    Kind regards,

  2. 2 Posted by zeppo on 02 Sep, 2012 01:18 AM

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    I create my notes on Google Docs, import them to Flashcard Exchange, and from there import from Flashcard Exchange to Mental Case. i typically will then set the template on Mental Case for the imported stack to "Reversible Notes". Suppose I want a particular card in that stack to be an exception to the template and be non-reversible. Can I accomplish this override of the stack's template by unchecking the "Facet can be used as a prompt or question" box on the appropriate facet of that particular card?

  3. Support Staff 3 Posted by drewmccormack on 02 Sep, 2012 07:43 AM

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    Yes. Every note is separate, and can be configured how you like.

    The templates are just a convenient way to set defaults and make batch changes. After they are applied, they are not related to the notes anymore.

    Kind regards,

  4. 4 Posted by zeppo on 03 Sep, 2012 04:11 PM

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    thanks, this is very helpful information. I think can still confirm a bug, however (or otherwise, perhaps you might term it a "glitch" for this one card.) I have a card that was originally imported from Version 1.9 into a stack on Version 2 designated as "Reversible Note." In Version 1.9, the card was in a stack of "reversible" cards, while it was made an exception by virtue of having it's "non-reversible" box checked. In Version 2, it did a good job of making the transition by virtue of its "Facet can be used as a prompt or question" box being unchecked for the "Response" labeled second facet (of a two facet card.) The "Prompt" labeled facet properly had this box checked. So by all accounts it should be set so that the second facet does not appear as a prompt.

    When I moved this card to another stack, the "Response" facet did, however, appear as a prompt. This was using the "Study All Due Notes" method on the most recent iPod release. I set all the scheduling via the desktop Version 2 and sync with the iPod daily. For what it's worth facets have the "Show in slideshows" box checked and have the Multiple Choice selection set to "True." Oh, and the "Schedule each response separately is unchecked" (since it is my understanding that on two faceted cards each response is scheduled separately by default whether the box is checked or not, and since this is to be a non-reversible note anyhow.)

    I had moved the card out of its original stack into a new stack with a custom template I had created that would make new cards in it non-reversible. But after learning that a card can be set to non-reversible regardless of the template of the stack in which it was created, and that moving the cards does not change the set up of a card in terms of its reversibility, I moved it back to the original stack.

    Perhaps the bug is that it is ignoring the non-reversibility of the card when the scheduling is reset (ie, due to the initial import from Version 1.9, the move to the new stack, and the move back to the new stack.) If this is the case, now that I have it in its final resting place so to speak, back in its original stack, I will see if it continues to use the Response card as a prompt (question) in future scheduling or whether it corrects this.

  5. Support Staff 5 Posted by drewmccormack on 03 Sep, 2012 04:58 PM

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    OK, thanks for reporting it. Might be difficult to isolate, but we'll try.

    Kind regards,

  6. 6 Posted by zeppo on 04 Sep, 2012 03:44 AM

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    For what it's worth, it did (possibly) correct itself on my most recent sync by showing the correct prompt this time. I'll have to wait and see if this is actually a case of it correcting itself or just coincidence that it used the correct facet as a prompt this time with it still scheduling the other facet as a prompt somewhere down the road.

  7. drewmccormack closed this discussion on 19 Sep, 2012 02:46 PM.

  8. zeppo re-opened this discussion on 10 Oct, 2012 12:38 AM

  9. 7 Posted by zeppo on 10 Oct, 2012 01:00 AM

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    To get back with you on this, I can confirm this problem is not just happening with cases that I imported from Version 1. New card sets that I created on Flashcard Exchange and imported to the IPod app and then moved to the desktop via a sync are also exhibiting this problem. The cases default to the "Reversible" template after loading to the desktop app (after the initial sync from the iPod Touch. I can't remember if this default is something I chose in a preference option somewhere, or if that is the program's default. Anyway, as I stated before, after they are loaded on the desktop this way, I go into particular cards in the set that I do not want to be reversible and uncheck the "Facet can be used as a prompt or question" box of the response facet. But this does not end up working, particularly on the first round of scheduling. Some older cards that came due for scheduling today gave the response facet as the prompt today, even the cards are set to be non-reversible.

    I always schedule on the desktop but study on the iPod after loading the scheduled cards with a sync. I sync daily. Maybe I'll try studying a round on the desktop one day and see if it happens there as well.

  10. Support Staff 8 Posted by drewmccormack on 10 Oct, 2012 06:40 AM

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    Ah, I think I know what is happening. The data model used on the iOS app is older and not as flexible as the one currently on the Mac. The iOS model requires that all notes in a case have the same reversibility option, which you set in the case settings.

    So you are quite right: If you have a reversible stack on the Mac, and make one note non-reversible, it will show up on iOS as reversible. Sorry I didn't pick up on this sooner.

    The good news is that we are currently working on a major upgrade for iOS, and this will bring the same data models to the Mac and iOS apps. Both apps will handle reversibility the same, and will even be capable of scheduling study separately.

    Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for reporting the issue.
    Kind regards,

  11. drewmccormack closed this discussion on 10 Oct, 2012 06:40 AM.

  12. zeppo re-opened this discussion on 13 Oct, 2012 04:43 PM

  13. 9 Posted by zeppo on 13 Oct, 2012 04:54 PM

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    I'm not sure what you mean when you say "scheduling study separately."

    Currently, If I set scheduling on the mac and sync to the iPod and study the notes on the iPod, when I sync back to the mac after studying them, are the results of success or failure for a card translated back to the mac specific for each facet (used as a prompt) of that card?

    And vice-versa, is the independent scheduling of each facet of a card as a prompt transferred to the iPod when it gives the prompt for a scheduled card? Or is the iPod still presenting the prompt for a scheduled card randomly, regardless of which facet the mac has scheduled (ie, the mac scheduled side "b" as a prompt of a reversible note, but the ipod only recognizes that the note is scheduled and may give either side "a" or side "b" as a prompt in random fashion)?

    Or perhaps by "scheduling study separately" are you just indicating that the iPod and mac can maintain independent study schedules even while using the sync to load card sets?

  14. Support Staff 10 Posted by drewmccormack on 14 Oct, 2012 08:22 AM

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    We introduced some changes a little while ago which means that the iPod should indeed handle the correct prompt, rather than choosing one randomly, and the correct schedule update should happen on the Mac.

    What i mean by schedule separately is that you will get all the same algorithms on the iPod as the Mac, and if you don't sync for a week, each device will keep scheduling. When they do sync up, they reconcile the differences, and you can continue.

    At the moment, the iPod is a slave to the Mac. The Mac does all scheduling, and if you don't sync, you don't get any new due notes. With the new system, the iPod would keep scheduling notes, even if it couldn't sync with the Mac.

    Hope that helps.
    Kind regards,

  15. 11 Posted by zeppo on 14 Oct, 2012 05:21 PM

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    Ok, thanks. Letting the iMac do the scheduling and syncing to the iPod to load the schedule is not a big deal for me.

    So if I understand correctly, in my case, since I do my studying on the iPod, the work around is to my original problem is to not include any "non-reversible" cards in a "reversible note" stack, since the exception to those cards will not translate in the sync between the mac and the ipod. Instead, I need to keep any non-reversible notes I want in a separate "question and answer" stack. Any target date on the upgrade that fixes this (ie, year end?)


  16. Support Staff 12 Posted by drewmccormack on 14 Oct, 2012 05:26 PM

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    Yes. Try not to mix the two types in one case is probably best for now.

    Can't give definite dates for release. That's a bad idea in software. But it should be months, not years.


  17. 13 Posted by robin.thebridge... on 25 Oct, 2012 06:33 PM

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    I have a set that keep reversing despite being set to not reverse. I've backed out from stack to case to case and nowhere do I have it set to reverse. I only use an iPad.

  18. Support Staff 14 Posted by drewmccormack on 25 Oct, 2012 06:41 PM

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    So if you go into the stack settings, the reverse settings are turned off? And you have never synced with a Mac?
    I'm not sure what the problem could be. We will do some testing.
    Can you tell me exactly how you are starting the slideshow? Are you studying the lesson notes. Which buttons do you tap, and what are the switches in the study settings set to?
    Kind regards,

  19. 15 Posted by robin.thebridge... on 25 Oct, 2012 06:53 PM

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    Here's how I have it set up Library -> Luke -> Essentials -> Mastery Charts and every stack/case is set for "Reverse Slides: off." I'm starting the slideshow by clicking down to Mastery Charts -> Study Slideshow -> Study Due Notes in Case.

    I don't have a Mac, so I've never synced with anything.

  20. Support Staff 16 Posted by drewmccormack on 25 Oct, 2012 07:12 PM

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    Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing: to turn off the reversibility, you need to click the Library. Then tap Edit, and then tap on the blue button of the case. In there, "Notes are reversible" should be turned off.
    Is that what you did?
    Kind regards,

  21. zeppo closed this discussion on 15 Jul, 2013 12:19 AM.

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