Studies > Preferences > Note Order > Longest Due Last
Not sure if I am just on a different wave-length here, but to me with this option I am expecting those notes with the longest due dates (farthest away from the present) to appear last in a study session. But when I choose to study a particular stack using the little pop up STUDY button, it actually presents the notes in the reverse fashion -- those due longest appear first, not last. (I'm talking about the study button that pops up when you highlight the stack name and hover the mouse to the right of the name.).
Of course, now that I know this, I'll just do the reverse of my expectations. But just letting you know in case this wasn't your intention. You might also change it to Ascending Due Date and Descending Due Date. Longest Due Date to me could also mean to factor in the date it was last studied and measure the length of time from last study date to next due date (though I see this is not the case after using it).
|?||Show this help|
|ESC||Blurs the current field|
|r||Focus the comment reply box|
|^ + ↩||Submit the comment|
You can use
Command ⌘ instead of
Control ^ on Mac
Support Staff 1 Posted by Vlad Borovtsov on 06 Mar, 2020 05:01 AM
i'll investigate that. thanks for heads up.
Support Staff 2 Posted by drewmccormack on 06 Mar, 2020 07:20 AM
"Longest Due" should mean that it has been due the longest. The ones due the longest are most in need of studying, and should appear first. Are you saying you see the opposite behaviour?
3 Posted by zeppo on 06 Mar, 2020 03:55 PM
Well, I think I am seeing the opposite. What I think I am seeing is the ones with due dates the farthest into the future appear first.
But really, "longest due" could also mean those notes that have the longest interval between the time last they last came due and their now scheduled due date, or the interval between the time last studied (which could be more recent than when they last actually came due if you studied when not due) and their scheduled due date, or substitute "present date" for "scheduled due date" in the previous two options.
With a fresh mind, I'm guessing now that you mean to factor in the present date rather than the future due date? In that case it would seem more descriptive and to the point to indicate sorting by last studied date.
EDIT PS: You just say "Longest Due". But there are two options: "Longest Due First" and "Longest Due Last". I'm talking about the latter, which I should think would have those that are "longest due", whatever definition that turns out to be, appearing last, not first.
Support Staff 4 Posted by drewmccormack on 09 Mar, 2020 07:56 AM
"Longest Due" is what it sounds like: the time since something became due. The note has been due the longest, ie has the earliest due date.
"Longest Due Last" would put the notes that have the earliest due date at the end, with the ones that have the latest due date first. That sounds like what you are saying is happening. Correct me if I am wrong.
5 Posted by zeppo on 09 Mar, 2020 03:12 PM
" The note has been due the longest, ie has the earliest due date."
The note that has the earliest due date is NOT the note that has been due the longest.
Let's say a stack has two notes. Note A was last studied a year ago and is coming due in two days. It will have been due for a year. Note B was studied a week ago and is coming due in two days. By what you say, Note B "has the earliest due date", but it obviously has NOT been due the longest. You need to clarify what you mean.
Support Staff 6 Posted by drewmccormack on 09 Mar, 2020 03:32 PM
I don’t understand the confusion. It means literally “due the longest”.
A note you studied a year ago, which has a due date in two days, is not due at all. It is not “due for study”, and will not appear in your due stack. It has been due for study for zero days.
The same applies to a note you studied a week ago, which is due in two days. It is not due, so it has been due for zero days.
Now take a note C, which became due to 2 days ago. It has been due for 2 days, and of the three, it is the longest due.
Hopefully this clarifies it. It has nothing to do with when a note was last studied. It is literally the time elapsed since a due note became due. Ie how long ago its due date is. Things due in the future have effectively a zero value, because they are not yet due for study.
7 Posted by zeppo on 09 Mar, 2020 04:18 PM
I think maybe you did not read my original question in this post where I said:
"when I choose to study a particular stack using the little pop up STUDY button, it actually presents the notes in the reverse fashion -- those due longest appear first, not last. (I'm talking about the study button that pops up when you highlight the stack name and hover the mouse to the right of the name.)."
When you use this button, it puts all the notes in that stack into the study session, not just the ones due that day. So when you say "Things due in the future have effectively a zero value, because they are not yet due for study.", in my case that would be the entire stack. Because the stack I am using is a smart stack of flagged notes that are not due for many months out into the future.
Support Staff 8 Posted by drewmccormack on 09 Mar, 2020 04:39 PM
If you have a stack of notes that aren’t due at all, “longest due” has no meaning. I suspect in that case, it will just order by increasing due date.
9 Posted by zeppo on 09 Mar, 2020 07:37 PM
Well, with a stack with none due that I tested, Longest Due First, did result in notes appearing by ascending due date (soonest due dates appear first), so what you said would fit. But when I changed it to Longest Due Last, it resulted in the reverse (those with due dates the farthest away appeared first). So it is also affecting those how those notes that aren't due are sorted depending on which of the two options you choose.
At any rate, I just figured you might know what is going on and I might gain some reassurance about what I tested, since mistakes can happen. But I took screen shots all through the process, and going through it again, I still confirm what happened. So I'll just use the option accordingly based on what I tested, just not what I would have expected.
Basically, as I've said before, I would like to be able to put a cap on how far out into the future a note can be scheduled to come due, so that I don't have notes with due dates 4-10 years away (other apps have this). So with some difficulty in figuring out all the sorting options and study options, I figured out how to flag notes that haven't been studied in the last 18 months and are not due within the next 6 months. I'm using that to study these in advance of their due dates and I'm finding a number of notes that I'm getting wrong (that otherwise would not have been tested again until well into the future, and the algorithm would have failed by sometimes years) For those notes I am restarting their study schedule. I've got 900 notes that fall into this category, so I'm just studying extra notes from this group as I have time.
Support Staff 10 Posted by drewmccormack on 10 Mar, 2020 07:18 AM
Vlad is doing most of the development these days. Perhaps he can think about offering an optional cap on the length of an interval in the long-term study schedule. Can think about it.
It's a little odd though, because to get to that level, you have to know the note correctly many times, and even after a year or two. If you know the note that well, it does seem odd that you would then forget it another few years further. A good policy is that if you don't know the answer immediately, you just mark it wrong. Otherwise there is a more risk you are going to forget.
11 Posted by zeppo on 10 Mar, 2020 02:27 PM
just a cursory look through some notes, I have one created January 20, 2013 (not sure when I made it active for study). I've studied it nine times, all graded correct. I last studied it Nov 17, 2019. It is next due Jan 23 2030.
Support Staff 12 Posted by drewmccormack on 10 Mar, 2020 02:39 PM
Well, that’s the supermemo system. We stick to that, because that is what is scientifically tested.
To put it into context, my guess is that when you studied the note in 2019, and got it right, several years had already elapsed. Perhaps 3-4. And you still got it right, even after 4 years. At that point, the supermemo algorithm estimates you will likely remember it for the next 11 years. Not totally crazy, given you still remembered it after 4 years, and got it correct.
Perhaps that seems odd, but that is the science the whole spaced repetition algorithm is based on. The more you get something correct, the slower you forget it. The next interval of forgetting is larger than the previous, even when that interval is in the years.
13 Posted by zeppo on 10 Mar, 2020 04:46 PM
I understand the supermemo system. There are a handful of experiments, but the most they study is around 18 months. Everything beyond that is speculation on how well the algorithm will work. I don't think even those that created the experiments would say, "We now know everything about how memory works." I certainly don't blame you for designing the app this way. But I have the advantage of having actually used flashcards for long terms study for about 8 years now, and have my own empirical data to work with. I also think it is reasonable to think things like age, dna, and environment factor into the equation. I now have my work around that I will use for your app, but if I were designing an app based on what I've learned, I would want to be able to set a cap as not a perfect way, but perhaps the simplest, of handling it-- for myself I would probably put it at 2 to 2.5 years, with maybe some indicator that the card has reached the cap.
Support Staff 14 Posted by drewmccormack on 10 Mar, 2020 05:09 PM
We can consider it. A two year cap may make sense.